Atiku, Peter Obi’s Manifestoes Not Different From Tinubu’s Policies – Baba Aye
It is now 65 years after Nigeria's independence; how has
the country fared so far?
It depends on the question of which class you are talking
about. Nigeria has fared badly for working-class people. At independence,
workers, poor farmers and the urban poor were not as badly off as they are now.
Hunger and insecurity did not stalk the land. They yearned for things to be
better. They had high hopes that with independence, their lives would become
better still. But it did not take them long to see that this was not going to
be the case. That is why the first protest letter of the trade unions demanding
increased wages and noting the ostentatious lifestyles of our rulers was before
the end of that same 1960. And things have only got worse for our class since
then. You have an idea of the suffering in the land now for the poor masses.
But for the class of capitalists, the super-rich, Nigeria
has fared excellently well for them. There were fewer than ten people who were
millionaires in dollars at independence. Today, we have almost 10,000. In fact
they were over 15,000 ten years ago. It was the devaluation of the naira that
brought it down. But still check the difference. While the population of
Nigeria has increased by five times, the number of dollar millionaires has
increased a thousandfold. And that’s just the dollar millionaires. There are
now probably more dollar billionaires in Nigeria than dollar millionaires at
independence. So, it is as clear as day that Nigeria has fared excellently well
for the class of the 0.00001% who comprise our exploiters.
Would you say that the issues that led to the Nigerian
civil war had well been resolved?
There are several issues that led to that fratricidal war. Some
of the social issues will persist until our society undergoes a revolution. But
there are also some key questions related to the national question, in which
there could be reforms to some extent, even under capitalism, but which remain
unresolved. And this is largely because of the particularly bankrupt nature of
neocolonial capitalism in Nigeria.
The ruling class, and this goes for all of them across the
different ethnic groups, especially the WaZoBia big three, rests on the
manipulation of ethno-regional and religious affiliations to fight for or
negotiate power. That was an incendiary element at the heart of the Civil War.
It is still there now and is unlikely to go away for as long as this class of
oppressors is in charge of our country.
Gen Yakubu Gowon at the end of the civil war declared
that there was No Victor, No Vanquished, and proclaimed the 3Rs of
Reconciliation, Reconstruction, and Rehabilitation. Going by happenings since
after the war, would you say that Gowon's declarations had been well executed?
To what extent has the 3Rs been achieved?
I like the fact that you pointed out “the extent”. It is
also important to stress intent. When the Federal Military Government won the
war, it was concerned with ensuring that capitalist development, or if you will,
underdevelopment, continued apace in the country, and in fact to take on added
verve. So, the 3Rs included the intent of spurring the reintegration of the
entrepreneurial spirit of the Igbo people for economic development. More
particularly, there has been a rehabilitation of the Igbo capitalists as they
and capitalists from the other ethnic stocks sit together on boards of banks
and industries.
Politics is a trickier bit. There is a position that has
been making the rounds for some time now of a memo saying an Igbo person will
not ever be allowed to be head of state after the Civil War. I don’t know how
true that is and I doubt it. More importantly, I think that is a distraction
for two key reasons.
First, is it not just one figure left after 99?
Vice-president, Senate President, Secretary to the Government of the
Federation, these are all key positions that capitalists of Igbo extraction
have occupied. Second, and more importantly, the impression that having a
president who is Yoruba, Hausa, Igbo, Kanuri, Ijaw, or any other ethnic group
translates into any significant benefit for the poor masses of such ethnic
stock is not only an illusion it is part of the broader strategy of
manipulation of the popular classes, to disarm us in the class struggle against
them.
Do you think the dreams of the country's founding fathers
for one indivisible entity have not been aborted?
Those people had several dreams of power and grandeur, and
for the expansion of capitalism so that they would become more and more like
the British they took over from, like the pigs in Animal Farm, but in a larger
farm of a country to pillage. But the supposed indivisibility of any country is
a joke. It is also not something that can simply be proclaimed; it has to be a
work in progress. Besides, whilst I think that Nigeria being a single entity is
desirable and indeed should have been a serious launchpad for a Union of
African States, as Kwame Nkrumah envisaged, I am also strongly of the view that
the right to self-determination of nationalities in this multinational state,
up to and including the right to secession subsequent to a plebiscite, should
be upheld. You cannot force unity.
Going by attitude and actions of present day political
leaders, do you think Nigerians are truly reaping the benefits of nationhood?
Like I already said in this conversation, you cannot simply
lump all Nigerians together. Like Malcolm X taught us, and which I think I have
mentioned here as well before, there are two nations in every nation; the
nation of the exploited poor and the nation of the exploiter few. Those handful
of super-rich Nigerians, the big capitalists, are reaping the benefit of the
nation-state. They are doing okay even more than capitalists in more developed
countries. But for the poor masses, what we are reaping are sorrow, tears and
blood. This must stop. And we, the people ourselves, are the only ones that can
stop this, through revolutionary struggle until we win our total liberation,
step by step, until victory. It is also important to note that, while there is
a lot to say about how the present crop of political leaders are running the
country down for the mass of the people, it did not start with them. All our
leaders have represented the same god: Marmon, or if you will, capital. And
thus, their policies have impoverished working people to the benefit of the
capitalists.
Looking at the state of the nation currently, would you
say the current administration is on the path of restoring the lost hope of
Nigerians?
All those references to hope from 1993 to date are sound
bites. There is no lasting hope that we, the working people, can have under
capitalism. We might be able to win some reforms now and then. And even these
are not primarily based on the benevolence of the capitalists. They are usually
concessions to our might on the streets and with strikes. But ultimately, we
must overthrow this exploitative system to have lasting hope not only for us
and generations yet unborn, but for avoiding the extinction of our species and
devastation of the earth. The logic of capitalism, which those running
Nigeria’s government represent in their own perverse way, is also what is
driving the climate crisis and global socio-economic sufferation for the
99.99%. It is an unsustainable system and is thus ultimately hopeless.
Do you think those trying to lure former President
Goodluck Jonathan into the 2027 Presidential election are doing him any good?
Do you think he should accept the offer?
Permutations for presidential contestations always have much
more at stake than the good or otherwise of the persons being touted. It even
goes beyond if or not such persons will contest. The mere bringing some names
to the table is often part of behind the scenes horse trading. Personally for
me, I think that we the working people should not allow ruling class politicians to divert our
attention away from the primary issues to such secondary matters. Irrespective of
which of them comes to power, they will whip us with the anti-poor, pro-rich
economic policies. Those of them that don’t come to power will play on the
forgetfulness of the people until the next elections come around and the dance
starts all over again. For example, you can see both Abubakar Atiku and Peter
Obi shouting themselves hoarse about the policies of Bola Tinubu. But when you
go through the manifestos of both of them, it is hardly different in substance
from that of Tinubu, which he is implementing as president.
Going by the pains being experienced by Nigerians since
the advent of the APC administration, do you still think that Nigerians should
still give President Bola Tinubu and the party another chance come 2027?
Nigerians did not give him a chance in the first place. He
did not take it a la carte, he grabbed it and ran away with it, in his own
words. That being said, and I will repeat yet again, there is little of
significant difference between all of these politicians representing the
capitalist system. There is none of them that should be given a chance either
at the ballot or on the streets. We need to emancipate ourselves from mental slavery,
as Bob Marly said, to win our redemption. We must learn from our history that
our emancipation, as working-class people, can come only from we ourselves when
we fight till we win power to change society, which is at the moment moulded in
the image of the capitalist exploiters at our expense.
What is your take on the ongoing case of the DSS against
the AAC National Leader Omoyele Sowore? Do you agree that it is part of plans
by government to silence him and stop him from taking part in the 2027
presidential election?
The oppressors in power understand the historical
significance of the African Action Congress (AAC) and Omoyele Sowore, its
National Chair. There is no other credible revolutionary alternative in Nigeria
today with a critical mass of membership spread across the country. Whilst
small when compared to the sizes of the capitalist parties which are oiled with
our stolen wealth, AAC represents the objective interest and subjective
possibilities of working people and youth power for total liberation. And the
capitalists in Nigeria can read the global moment we are in. They can see how
small revolutionary parties have soared in some of the countries where you have
seen upheavals in recent times, like in Sri Lanka. They do not want such a
thing to happen here in Nigeria. That is why they are putting all the obstacles
they can in the pathway of the party and its leader. But, as Victor Hugo said
some centuries ago in France, “no force on earth can stop an idea whose time
has come.”
How do you see the recent altercations between Dangote
Refinery and the unions in the petroleum sector? Do you agree to the view that
Dangote Refinery's actions so far are a carryover of the monopolistic
tendencies of Dangote Organisation?
Aliko Dangote is once again acting true to type. He did not
start with Dangote Refinery. He has always been anti-union. Fifteen years ago,
he sacked hundreds of workers in the Dangote pasta factory in Ikorodu for
joining the food workers' union. It did not stop there. Thugs, obviously with
his blessings, beat up those workers seriously. I salute both NUPENG and
PENGASSAN for standing up to him. Enough is enough. We must not allow him to
keep perpetuating union bursting strategy. Both NUPENG and PENGASSAN have won
important battles. But they have not won the war. We should expect Dangote to
come back with other tactics aimed at curtailing workers’ power in the
refinery, and he will fight dirty, including getting pro-capitalist NGOs and
hungry civil society cashtivists to try to rouse public sentiment against the
unions. They did so during these recent battles without much success. We should
however expect much more of this going forward. So, for NUPENG, PENGASSAN, and
the workers generally, in that refinery, it is not yet uhuru.
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