discourse with John O.
Dear John,
I actually want to believe we are in agreement on a fundamental at least, i.e. a commitment to leaving our country better than we met it. We can at least work from there....
Your not rightly proportioning the percentage of corruption is exactly what the power structures behind that construct want you to do! So that just 1% of your inner energy is devoted to fighting the person behind the dog.
I really wouldn't care to repeat myself on most of what you put in your submission, with all due respect please. What I'll just say with regards to "Great Britain, Belgium, USA and such like" is that they went through the purification, if you will, of revolution. The Brits conservative as they are still chopped off one King Charles head and put it on a pike! As for Indonesia? You picked a very wrong example! It has consistently been categorised as being more corrupt than Nigeria and actually was the archetypal picture of "crony capitalism" ...this does show that there are issues beyond corruption which undermine the progress and development of nations. And lest I forget, there is none of those countries that went through revolutions that corruption in high places did not reek to the heavens at the time of such massquakes...but the people did not face the shadow; they confronted the body whose shadow was cast in that elongated dark spot that corruption was and still is.
I do agree that (mere) internet advocacy and parodying intellectualism does separate some from the 'reality on the ground'. That is precisely why none of these two phenomenon has ever been my hall mark.
Thank you,
Baba Aye
Dear Baba Aye,
I am happy that we agree on some fundamentals. I may not have rightly portioned, in percentage terms, the figure for corruption. I may have been too emotional in talking of corruption because of available evidence. Some 30 years ago Nigeria and Indonesia had comparable per capita incomes but today it is not the same. Indonesia has a per capita income that is more than four times bigger than Nigeria's. Indonesia like Nigeria is oil revenue reliant. Why is this so? Corruption that has ensured that we lack institutions that propel economic growth, and allows public office holders to steal as if it were going out of fashion.
I am not in anyway disillusioned by your introduction of Adaka Borro and anti-labour legislations the civil war and the other issues that has plagued us into the equation. I will rather refer you to other nations like Great Britain, Belgium, USA and such like, that have suffered from self-demerninist uprising (as in the Niger Delta Republic of Borro and the Civil War), but are still able to maintain a stable economic growth. They no doubt remain issues to be resolved but I do not think that they are the sort of issues that should hold us down from achieving a fair living standard for our people. They should not be the reason why the schools are under-staffed neither are they the reason why Nigeria is in a perpetual state of darkness. I will also be surprised if you are able to convince me that they are the reason why public officials in Nigeria send their wards abroad to study and medicare care while the rest of us suffer in Ignorance and sickness.
Even among the Tivs and Junkuns, the Ifes and Modakekes, and the Indigenes and non-indegenes of Jos, the impact of corruption on the everyday life of every Nigeria and in our ability to develop viable institutions cannot the mistaken.
I think that a major problem for internet advocacy or 'interllectualism' is that it has the ability to distance us from the reality on the ground. I hope that we do not become like Peter Ekeh's country of two nations-which fits our country perfectly well, here.
I will stop here for now
Agwara John Onyeukwu
--- On Thu, 1/1/09, Baba Aye
From: Baba Aye
Subject: Re: [FOIcoalition] Ribadu tenureship score card as Chairman of EFCC, attn: Onyeukwu
To: FOIcoalition@ yahoogroups. com
Date: Thursday, January 1, 2009, 10:13 PM
Dear John,
I agree with you that 'it will be a disservice to Nigeria (and Nigerians) for anyone to think that the impact of corrupt on development can be taken lightly'. Who knows, you might even be correct in your view that any analysis of our country's developmental challenges that does not accord corruption that king of the jungle centrality should be deemed as unfair. Maybe one day we will be like Malaysia, Indonesia (again!) or Singapore that are corruption-free and consequently have fulfilled or are fulfilling their vision of Malaysia, Indonesia and Singapore, respectively unlike good, poor Nigeria that probably doesn't even have a vision of itself which then it would seek to fulfill.
Just like you too I also can understand the "sentiments" expressed in the Mbakwe-Osita formula of temporal repatriation back to the time of Lord Lugard rather than this mess of corruption that is the present era without getting carried away by it, not to talk of longing for it.
Anyway, while I wish you luck in dealing with corruption -sincerely- I might have to disillusion you by asking; was it corruption that led Isaac Adaka Boro to declare a Niger Delta Republic, led to the civil war, resulted in anti labour labour legislation, the Tiv-Junkun conflicts, Ife-Modakeke, etc? If yes, how please -extricated of other non "centraal" causes-? If no, are the causes of these resolved or would they add up to just the remaining 1%?
My view sir, corruption is a cancer, menace, etc and lots more. But at stake are power structures integrated within social, national question, etc issues that that are meshed...merely greased by corruption.
Thank you,
BA
--- On Sat, 1/3/09, John Onyeukwu
From: John Onyeukwu
Subject: Re: [FOIcoalition] BABA AYE:Ribadu tenureship score card as Chairman of EFCC, attn: Onyeukwu
To: FOIcoalition@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, January 3, 2009, 2:41 PM
I think that it will be a disservice to Nigeria (and Nigerians) for anyone to think that the impact of corrupt on development can be taken lightly. It is the cancer that ensures that we make no progress or even remain at the state we were in say 1970 (after 3 years of civil war). Compare Malaysia, Indonesia, Singapore and Nigeria then and now, and what you will se will surely make you weep. Flip through any sincere analysis of the development challenges that we face as a nation and you will see corruption as central to it. Look at our public officials and the state of infrastructure- power, education, health etc and you will weep for Nigeria. Just imagine that in 2007 we earned US$55bn from crude oil, and the UNDP Human Development Index for 2007 still reports that 95 percent of Nigerians still leave below poverty lines with per capita income of less than 3 dollars. Remember the massive revelations of the power sector probe by the House of Representatives and the fact that we spent more than US$6bn on power projects that delivered anything but power-with non-existent companies winning juicy contracts to build power stations. What about the Siemens, Harliburtons and other MNCs and their antics with its consequences on our economy?
I recall that Sam Mbakwe, a one-time Governor of old Imo State once said that he longed for a return to colonial rule. I do not long for that but I understand the sentiment of those that does.
If we are able to deal with corruption, we would have been able to deal with 99 percent of the problem with Nigeria. Agree or disagree but that is my position.
Agwara John Onyeukwu
I actually want to believe we are in agreement on a fundamental at least, i.e. a commitment to leaving our country better than we met it. We can at least work from there....
Your not rightly proportioning the percentage of corruption is exactly what the power structures behind that construct want you to do! So that just 1% of your inner energy is devoted to fighting the person behind the dog.
I really wouldn't care to repeat myself on most of what you put in your submission, with all due respect please. What I'll just say with regards to "Great Britain, Belgium, USA and such like" is that they went through the purification, if you will, of revolution. The Brits conservative as they are still chopped off one King Charles head and put it on a pike! As for Indonesia? You picked a very wrong example! It has consistently been categorised as being more corrupt than Nigeria and actually was the archetypal picture of "crony capitalism" ...this does show that there are issues beyond corruption which undermine the progress and development of nations. And lest I forget, there is none of those countries that went through revolutions that corruption in high places did not reek to the heavens at the time of such massquakes...but the people did not face the shadow; they confronted the body whose shadow was cast in that elongated dark spot that corruption was and still is.
I do agree that (mere) internet advocacy and parodying intellectualism does separate some from the 'reality on the ground'. That is precisely why none of these two phenomenon has ever been my hall mark.
Thank you,
Baba AyeZimmer 10, Heckershauser Str., 19A
D34127, Kassel, Germany
+49-1628714379
babaaye.blog.co.uk (titbits of my life, sort of)
solidarityandstruggle.blogspot.com (on theory and practice)
Skype name: iron1lion
Skype name: iron1lion
I am happy that we agree on some fundamentals. I may not have rightly portioned, in percentage terms, the figure for corruption. I may have been too emotional in talking of corruption because of available evidence. Some 30 years ago Nigeria and Indonesia had comparable per capita incomes but today it is not the same. Indonesia has a per capita income that is more than four times bigger than Nigeria's. Indonesia like Nigeria is oil revenue reliant. Why is this so? Corruption that has ensured that we lack institutions that propel economic growth, and allows public office holders to steal as if it were going out of fashion.
I am not in anyway disillusioned by your introduction of Adaka Borro and anti-labour legislations the civil war and the other issues that has plagued us into the equation. I will rather refer you to other nations like Great Britain, Belgium, USA and such like, that have suffered from self-demerninist uprising (as in the Niger Delta Republic of Borro and the Civil War), but are still able to maintain a stable economic growth. They no doubt remain issues to be resolved but I do not think that they are the sort of issues that should hold us down from achieving a fair living standard for our people. They should not be the reason why the schools are under-staffed neither are they the reason why Nigeria is in a perpetual state of darkness. I will also be surprised if you are able to convince me that they are the reason why public officials in Nigeria send their wards abroad to study and medicare care while the rest of us suffer in Ignorance and sickness.
Even among the Tivs and Junkuns, the Ifes and Modakekes, and the Indigenes and non-indegenes of Jos, the impact of corruption on the everyday life of every Nigeria and in our ability to develop viable institutions cannot the mistaken.
I think that a major problem for internet advocacy or 'interllectualism' is that it has the ability to distance us from the reality on the ground. I hope that we do not become like Peter Ekeh's country of two nations-which fits our country perfectly well, here.
I will stop here for now
Agwara John Onyeukwu
--- On Thu, 1/1/09, Baba Aye
From: Baba Aye
Subject: Re: [FOIcoalition] Ribadu tenureship score card as Chairman of EFCC, attn: Onyeukwu
To: FOIcoalition@ yahoogroups. com
Date: Thursday, January 1, 2009, 10:13 PM
Dear John,
I agree with you that 'it will be a disservice to Nigeria (and Nigerians) for anyone to think that the impact of corrupt on development can be taken lightly'. Who knows, you might even be correct in your view that any analysis of our country's developmental challenges that does not accord corruption that king of the jungle centrality should be deemed as unfair. Maybe one day we will be like Malaysia, Indonesia (again!) or Singapore that are corruption-free and consequently have fulfilled or are fulfilling their vision of Malaysia, Indonesia and Singapore, respectively unlike good, poor Nigeria that probably doesn't even have a vision of itself which then it would seek to fulfill.
Just like you too I also can understand the "sentiments" expressed in the Mbakwe-Osita formula of temporal repatriation back to the time of Lord Lugard rather than this mess of corruption that is the present era without getting carried away by it, not to talk of longing for it.
Anyway, while I wish you luck in dealing with corruption -sincerely- I might have to disillusion you by asking; was it corruption that led Isaac Adaka Boro to declare a Niger Delta Republic, led to the civil war, resulted in anti labour labour legislation, the Tiv-Junkun conflicts, Ife-Modakeke, etc? If yes, how please -extricated of other non "centraal" causes-? If no, are the causes of these resolved or would they add up to just the remaining 1%?
My view sir, corruption is a cancer, menace, etc and lots more. But at stake are power structures integrated within social, national question, etc issues that that are meshed...merely greased by corruption.
Thank you,
BA
--- On Sat, 1/3/09, John Onyeukwu
From: John Onyeukwu
Subject: Re: [FOIcoalition] BABA AYE:Ribadu tenureship score card as Chairman of EFCC, attn: Onyeukwu
To: FOIcoalition@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, January 3, 2009, 2:41 PM
I think that it will be a disservice to Nigeria (and Nigerians) for anyone to think that the impact of corrupt on development can be taken lightly. It is the cancer that ensures that we make no progress or even remain at the state we were in say 1970 (after 3 years of civil war). Compare Malaysia, Indonesia, Singapore and Nigeria then and now, and what you will se will surely make you weep. Flip through any sincere analysis of the development challenges that we face as a nation and you will see corruption as central to it. Look at our public officials and the state of infrastructure- power, education, health etc and you will weep for Nigeria. Just imagine that in 2007 we earned US$55bn from crude oil, and the UNDP Human Development Index for 2007 still reports that 95 percent of Nigerians still leave below poverty lines with per capita income of less than 3 dollars. Remember the massive revelations of the power sector probe by the House of Representatives and the fact that we spent more than US$6bn on power projects that delivered anything but power-with non-existent companies winning juicy contracts to build power stations. What about the Siemens, Harliburtons and other MNCs and their antics with its consequences on our economy?
I recall that Sam Mbakwe, a one-time Governor of old Imo State once said that he longed for a return to colonial rule. I do not long for that but I understand the sentiment of those that does.
If we are able to deal with corruption, we would have been able to deal with 99 percent of the problem with Nigeria. Agree or disagree but that is my position.
Agwara John Onyeukwu
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