beyond Ribaduism: debate with Osita on colonialism vs corruption
Osita,
My regards, please. I might seem pedantic, but I don;t think it's unnecessarily. Anyway, I would agree with any form of subjugation being bad and indeed of a fight-against. I just believe that corruption is more of a strategy of that subjugation which got en-rooted with the IBB settlement culture etc (at least I doubt if while Nzeogwu did mention the 10%ers any one would thus rightly say that corruption has always occupied such a central place as it seems to now in the era of native subjugation from Lancaster to the present, nor say from Balewa to date has been all kleptomania extraordinaire extravaganza) .
However, it should not be taken that "most people will understand" as you put it. A clear case is Anthony's view on military rule that stemmed from a logical conclusion of that formulation.
I would deign from a retort to the rhetoric in your submission (no pun meant), I agree that there's need for a more detailed addressing of the complexities of the matter at hand and placing it for discourse beyond this Forum (the 'serve however has the advantage of dialogue-intercourse). I will work towards a paper on the fetishism of corruption in about a fortnight's time, since I'll be very busy next week.
I do owe you an apology, I must say. In response to John Onyeukwu's submission I described the similarities between thinking colonialism is better to kuku moving back to it as a Mbakwe-Osita formula. Reading through yours now to respond, I noticed an explicit avowal of Mbakwe's position. I thus take back my formulation of a 'Mbakwe-Osita formula'.
Finally for now, the people Ribadu consorts with including Wolfowitz & Zoellick are hackmen of the 'Project New American Century' which aims at perpetuating its perceived American domination of the world.....it is unlikely that Cubans would welcome the words "...Historia mi absolvera" from him....and neither would I.
Ciao!
Baba Aye
--- On Thu, 1/1/09, OSITA MBA
From: OSITA MBA
Subject: Re: [FOIcoalition] Ribadu tenureship score card as Chairman of EFCC.
To: FOIcoalition@ yahoogroups. com
Date: Thursday, January 1, 2009, 2:37 PM
osita,
happy new year my brother. your response came in as I signed off to go catch the fun of welcoming in this year...I couldn't let it hold me back although the indigestible task of responding to the pair of responses that came in as my first task of the year made me cut my oyinbo-owambe happy birthday shindig...but I'm sipping my wine now though.
To the issues:
My perspective on your "colonialism is better than corruption" thesis was couched in three positions within my posting viz: you don't compare apples and oranges (a universally recognised principle in comparative analysis...in the simplest of terms i.e you compare like with like); such a thesis stems from an ahistorical analysis i.e. an analysis stunted by not situating it within a social-historical context &; it does grave injustice -indeed violence- to the memories of those our real "..heroes (and heroines) past.."
Now to your response;
* did the 21 striking miners murdered at iva valley in 1949 die so that the likes of chimaroke nnamani could loot the enugu state treasury with impunity and get away with it?
=> no they did not. but that is being simplistic and actually sidestep the essence of your thesis which I was responding to. The question(s) should be "what is Colonialism?" "What is corruption?" and what is the justifiable basis for comparing them?
=> colonialism is a political-economic system of subjugating people in their lands, killing them, robbing them, raping them, stealing away their resources and making them second class "citizens" in their own land. It is an era, a system, etc and not a thing in the sense that corruption is; relating to morality, integrity, etc. In case this still seems abstract, let's take Nigeria more concretely. Colonialism in Nigeria which commenced in 1864 on the backs of slavery that had preceded it and lasted for a century. This century the sacking of Benin and the deposition of its King Ovawemren, similar fates befell Jaja, Nana, etc. The pacification of Sokoto by 1906, the Aba women's revolt, delta tax riots, etc, etc. This century witnessed black men and women in their own country earning less because they were not white-colonialists...I could go on, but to save time and space, the essence is that while the 21 Iva valley workers killed on 18/11/49 was bad enough, I used that as a symbol for an era of 100 years only because of our earlier discourse on your face book wall with regards to the monument in their honour at Enugu.
On this part, I sum up: comparing colonialism and corruption is like comparing India (a country an entity-as-community, with culture, etc) and French cuisine (a cultural, nutritional entity). To say corruption under colonialism (of course there was then too though definitely on a much lower scale) was much better than corruption in an "Independent" Nigeria would have been correct. You can likewise compare colonial and post-colonial Nigeria (both being similar things i.e. era), there would be a consistency and soundness in that argument, but your presentation I beg to repeat flies in the face of a very basic principle of comparative analysis.
your next point;
=>It is good that you realize that sol is not an only criterion. Interestingly here you tend to imply what your thesis lost that it is "independent" Nigeria that is comparable with the colonial era...anyway, to the issues here summarily
(i) pointing out above that colonialism lasted 96 years 9and its different stages had there different dynamics within the overall dynamic of that era), you probably mean those who witnessed late colonialism. My first take, being a very practical person would hae been to respectively ask our senior citizens on this serve to please play the role of population for the imaginary survey you the outcome of which might surprise me. But they may be taken as not being "ordinary" Nigerians
(ii)one could similarly say that a majority of "ordinary" Nigerians would tell you that "the time of Babangida, Abacha, was better" and be ready to swap times because at least then there was garri. But I ask you, would you then say that "the military era, was better than the present corrupt democracy" with all its imperfections? Secondly, if we could assume that "ordinary" Nigerians would prefer to swap either colonialism or military dictatorship for the corrupt here and now is it for us as intellectuals to make such assertions? Whither then the leadership role of the intellectual as a fitila to throw light into the dark recesses of false consciousness that cannot but like a misty morning at times prevent them from seeing the sun of their self-emancipation?
(iii) the issue of ahistoricity that I pointed out earlier comes in. why, how, & when did we get to this sorry corrupt state? finding answers to this and the thousand and one threads between corruption and neo-colonial dependency which still characterises our national economy and polity despite its "sovereignty". it could also help to clarify on your last sentence thus;
"apart from anything else, we have nobody to blame but ourselves". a statement which I believe has an a priori conception of autochnous development outside the octopoidal arms of global institutions like the bretton woods institutions and a blanket definition of "we" which subsumes the very "ordinary" Nigerian you have taken pains to speak for as believing that colonialism is better than corruption as much as the thieving and rapacious ruling elites that constitute the driving force of the corrupt Nigeria Inc.
Anyway, I do hope we have more robust discourse and tireless action this year. For me its a welcome beginning to a year rich in history and pregnant with a future. As we step into the year marking 10 years of Seattle and our Republic, 20 years of May 31st anti-SAP rising Tiannemen square and the collapse of the Berlin wall, and 90 years of the murder of Rosa Luxembourg and Karl Liebnecht, please join me in saying cheers as I toast to this very first day of that year.....the 50th anniversary of the Cuban revolution. It is in this light that I take the liberty of attaching hasta la victotia siempre an heart moving song in honour of Commandante (Dr.) Ernesto Che Guevara & that revolution...I could send the English translation of its lyrics if you care. With warm regards;
Viva la Revolucion!
Baba Aye
--- On Wed, 12/31/08, OSITA MBA
From: OSITA MBA
Subject: Re: [FOIcoalition] Ribadu tenureship score card as Chairman of EFCC.
To: FOIcoalition@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, December 31, 2008, 11:22 PM
My regards, please. I might seem pedantic, but I don;t think it's unnecessarily. Anyway, I would agree with any form of subjugation being bad and indeed of a fight-against. I just believe that corruption is more of a strategy of that subjugation which got en-rooted with the IBB settlement culture etc (at least I doubt if while Nzeogwu did mention the 10%ers any one would thus rightly say that corruption has always occupied such a central place as it seems to now in the era of native subjugation from Lancaster to the present, nor say from Balewa to date has been all kleptomania extraordinaire extravaganza) .
However, it should not be taken that "most people will understand" as you put it. A clear case is Anthony's view on military rule that stemmed from a logical conclusion of that formulation.
I would deign from a retort to the rhetoric in your submission (no pun meant), I agree that there's need for a more detailed addressing of the complexities of the matter at hand and placing it for discourse beyond this Forum (the 'serve however has the advantage of dialogue-intercourse). I will work towards a paper on the fetishism of corruption in about a fortnight's time, since I'll be very busy next week.
I do owe you an apology, I must say. In response to John Onyeukwu's submission I described the similarities between thinking colonialism is better to kuku moving back to it as a Mbakwe-Osita formula. Reading through yours now to respond, I noticed an explicit avowal of Mbakwe's position. I thus take back my formulation of a 'Mbakwe-Osita formula'.
Finally for now, the people Ribadu consorts with including Wolfowitz & Zoellick are hackmen of the 'Project New American Century' which aims at perpetuating its perceived American domination of the world.....it is unlikely that Cubans would welcome the words "...Historia mi absolvera" from him....and neither would I.
Ciao!
Baba AyeZimmer 10, Heckershauser Str., 19A
D34127, Kassel, Germany
+49-1628714379
babaaye.blog. co.uk (titbits of my life, sort of)
solidarityandstrugg le.blogspot. com (on theory and practice)
Skype name: iron1lion
Skype name: iron1lion
"if you are the big tree, we are the small axe, ready to cut you down"
- Bob Marley
"We will no longer hear your command, we'll seize the control from your hands
we will fan the flames of our anger and pain....Amandla, Ngawethu"
- UB 40
- Bob Marley
"We will no longer hear your command, we'll seize the control from your hands
we will fan the flames of our anger and pain....Amandla, Ngawethu"
- UB 40
--- On Thu, 1/1/09, OSITA MBA
From: OSITA MBA
Subject: Re: [FOIcoalition] Ribadu tenureship score card as Chairman of EFCC.
To: FOIcoalition@ yahoogroups. com
Date: Thursday, January 1, 2009, 2:37 PM
Baba
Happy New Year!
With respect, I think you’re being unnecessarily pedantic. When I referred to corruption being worse than colonialism what I meant (which I am sure most people will understand) is that the subjugation of a people by a handful of indigenous kleptocrats is worse than the subjugation of a people by a handful of foreign colonialists. Therefore your apple and orange analogy is wide off the mark. Subjugation is subjugation, whether perpetrated by indigenes or foreigners. You are entitled to disagree with my conclusion but there is no “universally recognised principle in comparative analysis” that invalidates the comparison.
You defined colonialism as “a political-economic system of subjugating people in their lands, killing them, robbing them, raping them, stealing away their resources and making them second class "citizens" in their own land”. What is the essential difference between the situation you described and what we have had in Nigerian since 1960 (particularly in the Niger Delta) other than the race of the subjugators?
It is instructive that you referred to King Ovawemren, Jaja, Nana, etc. These early Niger Delta leaders were deposed and exiled by the colonialist, a fate that was better than what our own Abacha visited on Saro Wiwa and other leaders of Ogoniland. How does the Benin massacre compare to the Odi massacre?
(As an aside, I thought the late Sam Mbakwe was wrong to call for the return of colonial administration in Africa but I also find it ironic that we always appeal to ‘the international community’ for help each time a political situation arises in Africa!)
Back to corruption, can you honestly say that the British colonialists would not have managed the oil revenue that accrued to Nigeria since 1960 to our greater benefit than our own brothers and sisters?
I know the issues are much more complex than can be properly discussed in this medium, and I know that colonisation is an evil that can never be justified but I believe that there is a debate to be had on the issues.
In my opinion, what made Ribadu so special was his appreciation that the battle against corruption should be fought with the same vigour as the battle for Independence. I believe that most of his well-meaning critics, including your erudite self, tend to miss that point.
In the spirit of the 50th anniversary of the Cuban Revolution, on behalf of Nuhu Ribadu, I leave you with the concluding words of Fidel Castro’s four-hour defence speech on 16 October 1953: “Condemn me. It does not matter. History will absolve me.”
Regards.osita,
happy new year my brother. your response came in as I signed off to go catch the fun of welcoming in this year...I couldn't let it hold me back although the indigestible task of responding to the pair of responses that came in as my first task of the year made me cut my oyinbo-owambe happy birthday shindig...but I'm sipping my wine now though.
To the issues:
My perspective on your "colonialism is better than corruption" thesis was couched in three positions within my posting viz: you don't compare apples and oranges (a universally recognised principle in comparative analysis...in the simplest of terms i.e you compare like with like); such a thesis stems from an ahistorical analysis i.e. an analysis stunted by not situating it within a social-historical context &; it does grave injustice -indeed violence- to the memories of those our real "..heroes (and heroines) past.."
Now to your response;
* did the 21 striking miners murdered at iva valley in 1949 die so that the likes of chimaroke nnamani could loot the enugu state treasury with impunity and get away with it?
=> no they did not. but that is being simplistic and actually sidestep the essence of your thesis which I was responding to. The question(s) should be "what is Colonialism?" "What is corruption?" and what is the justifiable basis for comparing them?
=> colonialism is a political-economic system of subjugating people in their lands, killing them, robbing them, raping them, stealing away their resources and making them second class "citizens" in their own land. It is an era, a system, etc and not a thing in the sense that corruption is; relating to morality, integrity, etc. In case this still seems abstract, let's take Nigeria more concretely. Colonialism in Nigeria which commenced in 1864 on the backs of slavery that had preceded it and lasted for a century. This century the sacking of Benin and the deposition of its King Ovawemren, similar fates befell Jaja, Nana, etc. The pacification of Sokoto by 1906, the Aba women's revolt, delta tax riots, etc, etc. This century witnessed black men and women in their own country earning less because they were not white-colonialists...I could go on, but to save time and space, the essence is that while the 21 Iva valley workers killed on 18/11/49 was bad enough, I used that as a symbol for an era of 100 years only because of our earlier discourse on your face book wall with regards to the monument in their honour at Enugu.
On this part, I sum up: comparing colonialism and corruption is like comparing India (a country an entity-as-community, with culture, etc) and French cuisine (a cultural, nutritional entity). To say corruption under colonialism (of course there was then too though definitely on a much lower scale) was much better than corruption in an "Independent" Nigeria would have been correct. You can likewise compare colonial and post-colonial Nigeria (both being similar things i.e. era), there would be a consistency and soundness in that argument, but your presentation I beg to repeat flies in the face of a very basic principle of comparative analysis.
your next point;
i know that standard of living is by no means the only criterion but if you conduct an opinion poll on whether 'ordinary' nigerians that lived under british colonisation would swap that for what they are getting under today's 'independent' nigeria you might well be surprised at the outcome.
(i) pointing out above that colonialism lasted 96 years 9and its different stages had there different dynamics within the overall dynamic of that era), you probably mean those who witnessed late colonialism. My first take, being a very practical person would hae been to respectively ask our senior citizens on this serve to please play the role of population for the imaginary survey you the outcome of which might surprise me. But they may be taken as not being "ordinary" Nigerians
(ii)one could similarly say that a majority of "ordinary" Nigerians would tell you that "the time of Babangida, Abacha, was better" and be ready to swap times because at least then there was garri. But I ask you, would you then say that "the military era, was better than the present corrupt democracy" with all its imperfections? Secondly, if we could assume that "ordinary" Nigerians would prefer to swap either colonialism or military dictatorship for the corrupt here and now is it for us as intellectuals to make such assertions? Whither then the leadership role of the intellectual as a fitila to throw light into the dark recesses of false consciousness that cannot but like a misty morning at times prevent them from seeing the sun of their self-emancipation?
(iii) the issue of ahistoricity that I pointed out earlier comes in. why, how, & when did we get to this sorry corrupt state? finding answers to this and the thousand and one threads between corruption and neo-colonial dependency which still characterises our national economy and polity despite its "sovereignty". it could also help to clarify on your last sentence thus;
"apart from anything else, we have nobody to blame but ourselves". a statement which I believe has an a priori conception of autochnous development outside the octopoidal arms of global institutions like the bretton woods institutions and a blanket definition of "we" which subsumes the very "ordinary" Nigerian you have taken pains to speak for as believing that colonialism is better than corruption as much as the thieving and rapacious ruling elites that constitute the driving force of the corrupt Nigeria Inc.
Anyway, I do hope we have more robust discourse and tireless action this year. For me its a welcome beginning to a year rich in history and pregnant with a future. As we step into the year marking 10 years of Seattle and our Republic, 20 years of May 31st anti-SAP rising Tiannemen square and the collapse of the Berlin wall, and 90 years of the murder of Rosa Luxembourg and Karl Liebnecht, please join me in saying cheers as I toast to this very first day of that year.....the 50th anniversary of the Cuban revolution. It is in this light that I take the liberty of attaching hasta la victotia siempre an heart moving song in honour of Commandante (Dr.) Ernesto Che Guevara & that revolution...I could send the English translation of its lyrics if you care. With warm regards;
Viva la Revolucion!
Baba AyeZimmer 10, Heckershauser Str., 19A
D34127, Kassel, Germany
+49-1628714379
babaaye.blog.co.uk (titbits of my life, sort of)
solidarityandstruggle.blogspot.com (on theory and practice)
Skype name: iron1lion
Skype name: iron1lion
"if you are the big tree, we are the small axe, ready to cut you down"
- Bob Marley
"We will no longer hear your command, we'll seize the control from your hands
we will fan the flames of our anger and pain....Amandla, Ngawethu"
- UB 40
- Bob Marley
"We will no longer hear your command, we'll seize the control from your hands
we will fan the flames of our anger and pain....Amandla, Ngawethu"
- UB 40
--- On Wed, 12/31/08, OSITA MBA
From: OSITA MBA
Subject: Re: [FOIcoalition] Ribadu tenureship score card as Chairman of EFCC.
To: FOIcoalition@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, December 31, 2008, 11:22 PM
baba
did the 21 striking miners murdered at iva valley in 1949 die so that the likes of chimaroke nnamani could loot the enugu state treasury with impunity and get away with it? even my brother jim nwobodo that bled the old anambra state dry and stooped as low as stealing a government generator as sports minister was recently given a national honour!
i know that standard of living is by no means the only criterion but if you conduct an opinion poll on whether 'ordinary' nigerians that lived under british colonisation would swap that for what they are getting under today's 'independent' nigeria you might well be surprised at the outcome.
without doubt, colonisation was a terrible thing. i just believe that the unbridled corruption ravaging nigeria is worse. apart from anything else, we have nobody to blame but ourselves.
may 2009 be better for all of us.
osita
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